Finding Balance: Melissa Le Nevé on Climbing, Training, and Dreamtime 8C

In this episode, Lattice coach Ella Russell chats with climbing icon Melissa Le Nevé to dive into her incredible journey from competition success to legendary outdoor ascents. Melissa shares her experiences, from claiming the first female ascent of the iconic Action Direct (9a / 5.14d) in the Frankenjura to her current project on the historic Dreamtime (8C / V15) in Ticino.

They explore Melissa’s unique approach to training, including her recent gains in finger strength, her passion for combining climbing with paragliding, and how she balances bouldering, sport climbing, and multi-pitch routes like Le Voyage (E10 7a) and Delicatessen (8b / 5.13d). Whether you're seeking training inspiration or simply love hearing from the greats, this episode offers something for everyone.

Key Takeaways

• Melissa’s transition from competitions to iconic outdoor challenges.
• Behind the scenes of her first female ascent of Action Direct and her ongoing work on Dreamtime.
• The difference between French and British training approaches and how Melissa saw surprising finger strength gains.
• How paragliding complements her climbing lifestyle.
• Her plans for future projects, including Biography (9a+ / 5.15a) and Bon Voyage (9a E12).

Don’t miss this epic episode! Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your favourite podcast platform.

The Lattice jingle is brought to you by Devin Dabney, music producer of the outdoor industry who also hosts the American Climbing Project.

Transcript

Mel (00:00)
I'm very sarcastic sometimes.

Ella Russell (00:04)
Maybe, yeah,

maybe that's what it is. Maybe I have to get used to it. Maybe I have to get used to it. Also, like, I'm very earnest. So, and I want people to be comfortable. So, like, maybe I don't pick up on it as easily. So, but yeah, I like dry wit. So, I'll start off. Okay. Are you ready? Cool. So,

Mel (00:19)
Yeah.

Ella Russell (00:33)
Hi there, it's Ella hosting today's podcast. I'm one of the coaching team at Lattice and I'm joined by, actually, I'm gonna stop there because I want to make sure I pronounce your second name right. Is it Le Neve or is it Le Neve? Le Neve, Le Neve. Okay, I'm gonna start again. Crazy, cut all of this out. Le Neve, Le Neve.

Mel (00:44)
Le Neve.

You can call me like how you want.

Ella Russell (00:58)
No, but I want to get it right. It matters to me. Okay. Okay, cool.

Mel (01:00)
Le Neve.

movie.

It's simple, but not so simple.

Ella Russell (01:12)
Yeah. Okay.

Mel (01:13)
You

Ella Russell (01:14)
Hi there, it's Ella hosting today's podcast. I'm one of the coaching team at Lattice and I'm joined by Melissa Linnevich, who is a total legend in both the competition and outdoor climbing world. My passion as a coach is to support climbers on their training and climbing journeys. And over the last few months, I've had the absolute privilege of working with Melissa on her own journey. I'm really excited to chat with Melissa today. Her impressive resume and evolution as an all-around climber needs no introduction, but to recap.

Melissa was a prolific competition boulderer until retirement in 2016. She was the French women's bouldering champion twice and internationally she podiumed at numerous IFSC World Cup events and placed fourth overall in the 2011 Bouldering World Cup. On the outdoor front, Melissa has excelled across multiple disciplines and it's impossible to cover all of them today, but to summarize just a few, Melissa has bouldered all over the world with a sense up to 8b+.

Last year, for example, she made the first female ascent of the Daga in Cresciano. She has sport climbed up to 9A. Highlights include the classic 8C Wall Street. And then after six years of projecting, she succeeded in making the first female ascent of Action Direct, the iconic Wolfgang Gullick 9A in the Frankenjura. In addition, Melissa is no stranger to trad climbing and multi-pitch climbing, having climbed the classic E10 Le Voyage in Arnott and the 8B multi-pitch Delicatassen in Corsica.

Melissa has a significant training history and also has coached other climbers, so she has an incredible depth of knowledge and experience when it comes to training for climbing. Today, we're going to cover three key topics. Firstly, Melissa's climbing beginnings and her career highlights to date, including her sense of action direct and how she overcame the mental and physical challenges that came with this process. Secondly, her training with Lattice so far and the unexpected gains we've already seen in the fingers.

And then thirdly, the multidisciplinary approach she's now taking to climbing, her motivations for doing so and how she manages to balance all of this alongside her non-climbing passion of paragliding. So welcome to the podcast, Melissa. How are you?

Mel (03:25)
Thank you. I'm doing very great. Thanks. Well, let's say I came back home after three weeks around Germany and Ticino and I've been doing a lot of ice climbing and paragliding, hiking, kind of a break from this like three week really intensive focus on bouldering. So it was really good, always refreshing to take a break sometimes.

Ella Russell (03:27)
What have you been up to this week?

Mel (03:54)
And now I'm back to Ticino for like two weeks.

Ella Russell (03:54)
Yeah.

Excellent, amazing. So that's just for those listening. Let's start off with your beginnings, if that's all right, and how you first started climbing and what drew you to the sport of climbing.

Mel (04:09)
It's kind of funny because I was like kind of a young woman who wanted to try pretty much every kind of sport until I was 15 and then somehow I was running into the list of different kind of sports I could try like, you know, how you call it, archery. And at one point I was like, okay, I went too far and I...

Ella Russell (04:33)
for you.

Mel (04:38)
I discovered climbing straight after and it was yeah, first sight love. So it was really cool. And find like directly that it was somehow like the place I wanted to be, the people I wanted to hang out with and just the sport was really challenging for me and it was really nice. So.

Ella Russell (05:00)
And did

you start with outdoor climbing or was it indoor?

Mel (05:03)
No,

yeah, so I grew up in Bordeaux, which is the fourth biggest city in France, and very flat, not very mountaineering culture, more like surfing and skateboarding, stuff like this. And climbing was very, like, not in the frame, let's say, of the city. We had, like, some very small associations with very small walls. Like, the one I found was

eight meter with, we call it copy rock climbing, very old school, let's say, like if you see it as a modern perspective. But I started there and I found the community very nice. And then I started with competition because it was like kind of a thing they were doing there. And at the same time, I met people who were going outside and I kind of like grew the start of my climbing like that with this true perspective.

Ella Russell (05:52)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Mel (06:03)
So

I never like a fully comp climber or like a fully rock climber. I was always, yeah, both.

Ella Russell (06:11)
And did you

start competing pretty quickly then after you started climbing?

Mel (06:14)
Straight away.

Yeah, straight away. I remember, I think, like, like the first or second year of the competition I was doing, I was like a climber who needed to confront a lot of like fear with like falling and hate and managing, I don't know, lot of like mental, let's say, challenges. And like the girl was doing like the

département in French is like region, like smaller than regional, like competition crew. She didn't want to take me on board because of many reasons, even if I was starting to do really well in competitions. And it became kind of like, I don't know, prove her wrong somehow things. And yeah, like a...

Yeah, I had a lot of motivation through that process to keep on with competition. Then I got hooked with bigger comps and that was very inspiring.

Ella Russell (07:24)
Yeah, definitely.

What was the progression like for you with the, you started competing straight away. Did you find you were doing pretty well straight away or was it more gradual? Yeah, how did that look for you in terms of?

Mel (07:38)
I need to remember. let's

say, I think from 15 to 16, I was very casually going to this little climbing gym, like 15 minutes from my home by car, and maybe once a week. And I was maybe doing like some very, very small comps, like one or two a year. And then it started a bit.

bigger because another teammate of the same association was very motivated for competition. So we went to the small regional department, then regional and stuff like that. So we built up this crew to try to go to further competitions because it was also further from Bordeaux because it was, let's say, in the regional aspect or in the Pyrenees or...

always far away. So, and there was not so many like organization. It went afterwards, but it was very, very small. So it needed a lot of motivation.

Ella Russell (08:44)
Yeah and yeah a lot of commitment to be able to travel.

Mel (08:47)
A lot of commitment,

yeah. And like thanks to, let's say, the parents mostly. yeah, and afterwards, 17, 18, I went to more competition thanks to like a local group and more budget in the competition crew. So that was really good. And then we started to do like the first French Championship.

together and some more important competitions all together with like 10 people crew always traveling together in a minibus sleeping everywhere because we had not so much budget. Like that was very, yeah, very nice, let's say. And I think at 19, I started to be, I think my first year like quite of success in terms of

international. If I remember well, was my last junior year. I my first European Cup for junior and at the same time first World Cup in bowling and I got selected to the European Championship in Lid. Yeah, I was doing both at the time.

Ella Russell (10:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I lead.

Wow.

Mel (10:16)
I did quite a lot of lead climbing before. Not so much bowling actually. Because also we had 30 minutes away, Roca, it was a climbing gym, were quite advanced for the time, and 12 meter wall, pretty overhanging. it was a good place to train.

Ella Russell (10:21)
Okay.

Mel (10:44)
did a lot of like lead there training. Yeah.

Ella Russell (10:47)
Okay. And so did

you stay living in Bordeaux whilst you were competing internationally or did you have to move from a training?

Mel (10:55)
The first

year I stayed, yes, until I was 21. And then I enrolled myself to the French national camp. It's a place in Aix-en-Provence where you actually train, especially for competitions. And my best friend, Alizé, was

proposed to go there and somehow I pushed a little that if I could join or not because I already chose at that time to do bouldering because they made me choose that this thing. It's very interesting. At the time they were really not psyched. We were doing both lead and bouldering. And like the French coach from the bouldering, like the lead climbing.

Ella Russell (11:37)
Mm-hmm.

Mel (11:54)
asked me to choose in between both. So I chose ballering.

Ella Russell (11:59)
Why was that out of interest?

Mel (12:00)
It was a French politic.

Ella Russell (12:03)
As in like, why did you choose bouldering? Like is there something more about bouldering that was luring you towards bouldering compared to LEAD or?

Mel (12:11)
I think at the time I found it a little more forgiving for mistakes and on my... I wanted to learn through mistakes too, let's say, in terms of mental strengths. And that was less stressful for me and more playful. And I wanted to put more into...

Ella Russell (12:35)
Mm-hmm.

Mel (12:41)
Yeah, that direction, like the more playful things to be honest. Also, I have a very contradictory mind and I don't like people like to tell me somehow like I should choose something and insist in one way and somehow I really had a good connection with a bowler French coach and he became my coach afterwards.

Ella Russell (12:44)
Okay, yeah, so compared to

Okay, so a bit of the personal side of things and like, who you would be working with, as well as the style of bouldering, allowing you to learn and develop whilst you are working the boulder rather than obviously lead climbing, you have one go and that's it. Yeah, totally.

Mel (13:11)
Yeah, it's nice.

One shot. Exactly. I would have

continued if they will not made me choose. it will have, I will have been psyched to continue both, but it's probably history, Very funny.

Ella Russell (13:32)
Yeah. You had to choose. It's incredible, isn't it? And like,

what was the what was the training like for you when you were not really in the mode of international competition? Like, how did your your year look like? Yeah, was was it quite set out and regimented? Or was it quite fluid? Yeah. But yeah, give us a bit of a flavor of that.

Mel (13:57)
It evolved with the professionalization of the sport, let's say. back in 2010, 2011, we were in this French center and there was one person, one coach who were organizing the whole functioning of the center. And I had this coach from the French team who were giving me a plan.

to do and we were doing like we do like cycles of training and let's say like every three weeks I will go rock climbing most of the time. because Aix-en-Provence is like so in the center of so many like cracks and so, so it was very easy. I had very balanced training in between like going outside once a week at least and training with like cycles for specifically for competitions.

Ella Russell (14:57)
That's incredible actually being able to go outside whilst because I think that's getting more and more unusual, isn't it? think.

Mel (15:04)
Yeah, and that's the thing. So afterwards in 2013, I moved two years to Innsbruck to train with some friends, Anna and yeah, and the other one, Katarina and so, and it was very different. had like, it was more like kind of like a...

instinctive training, I would say, like a crew training together and it was very nice and very free. And at one point in 2015, let's say 2014, at the end of the season, the coaches asked me to come to Paris for the training center in Paris. I couldn't really say no. So I went and I went in 2015, didn't work super well.

And in 2016, when I finished third of the world ranking, it was way more strict. It was incredibly strict. Let's say with the professionalization of the sports, all the team really wanted to push. And the way to do it was way more structured planning and

well as free time to go outside for sure. So the balance for me was not a balance anymore and it's one of the reasons why I decided to create competitions because at end of the season it was just way too much and I couldn't really breathe anymore so I just decided okay it's way too intense for me actually. So even if it was very successful.

Ella Russell (16:45)
Yeah, think, think that's...

Yeah, I can understand that. You can sort of appreciate the desire of the of the French team to sort of be more on it, be more like specific, be more targeted, but also for you as an individual, that outside time and that freedom sounds like it was really important to you.

Mel (17:04)
Yeah, because I grew up as kind of a free bird and when you try to put a bird in a cage, it doesn't really work. So it's very different now, like how if you grew up in an environment where it's like your mojo and your target and everything to go, like some of the athletes, it was really not a problem. But for me, it was a sacrifice.

Ella Russell (17:11)
Yeah, so.

Mel (17:31)
And I come from, it's also a different culture. I come from the South, I grew up in the South and I'm, let's say, yeah, very Latin. like going to Paris and going there, it was very nice experience, but it was also, yeah, I had to sacrifice a lot in my freedom.

Ella Russell (17:54)
Yeah, no, no, think, I think that's it. I think it's really...

Mel (17:57)
And was commitment. wanted to. I wanted to try, but somehow, I don't know.

Ella Russell (18:02)
it

just, yeah, and you reflected on that and I was like, that just doesn't work for me. And I think that honestly.

Mel (18:06)
Well, my body reflected for me. At one

point, the problem is when you try to convince yourself, you go fully for it because anyway, you are in full mode, third world ranking and you're like, okay, it works really well. So you try to keep on with your mind. But at the end of the season, I had three severe injuries or told me, okay, now it's maybe time to stop. Like a finger and after foot and after the elbow.

It was insane. I think six full months of being injured basically.

Ella Russell (18:42)
Wow, what do you attribute that to? Do you think it was the training volume or do you know, what was, yeah, if you look back now and think, what was contributing towards that? Like, why do I feel?

Mel (18:56)
For

me it's the mind. Basically I couldn't breathe anymore and my body wanted to give me some free time, let's say.

Ella Russell (19:02)
Mm-hmm.

Mm

hmm. That's fair enough. It's amazing isn't it how strong. Yeah.

Mel (19:10)
I

love Fontainebleau, but somehow, I don't know, I really love the mountains. For me, just one week in Ceuse would have been enough to breathe, but I was not allowing myself to go there because it was not part of the plan.

Ella Russell (19:31)
Yeah, yeah, no, that makes total sense. And it's big significant thing, isn't it, to realize for yourself what you need and what conditions you thrive under? Yeah, so that naturally leads on to your action direct journey. I watched Real Rock 15 again recently in preparation for this podcast, and I thought it was a great documentary of your journey on this route and very moving. And so just can you remind us what motivated you to take on?

that particular challenge over anything else at that time.

Mel (20:03)
I think it was also a journey when I was living in Innsbruck and I did one camp with Adidas at Franconia. It was my first time discovering the place, long time ago, like 2012 or something. And yeah, I liked like the history attached to the place and how it's very radical. yeah, it was kind of a...

Ella Russell (20:18)
Mm-hmm.

Mel (20:31)
an exemplarity of like pure climbing to me. So I wanted to take one challenge after the other and so like, okay, it's a good place and like the community and sharing time there. And I took, I started with Wall Street and it went quite quickly and I sort of, okay, let's check with Accent Direct and see where the journey will bring me.

But when I started to try it the first time in 2013, I realized the upper moves could be done quite constantly, but the first move I would need a lot of work. Possible, but a lot of work. So yeah, it was a challenge, kind of a graal challenge.

Ella Russell (21:20)
Mm-hmm.

Huge

challenge and I guess we've touched on this a little bit, but you obviously chose in some ways, you chose the outdoor climbing over your continued competition climbing. And action was maybe one of the first things. If you look back now, like how do you feel about that choice? Was it a clear choice at the time? When for you, you're like, I'm going to stop competition climbing and I'm going to focus my energy on action. it a really obvious choice for you at the time?

Mel (21:56)
Well, it was very hard to make the choice. And when I realized that actually my eight years of competition has been resumed in one talk with a coach where the coach were like, yeah, cool. It seems like you've reached your high point anyway. And I was really like, fuck it. Okay. Sorry for the thought, but I was really like a bit.

that made my choice very easy, let's say like...

I understood that even if I would win a numerous of World Cups, I would be only a competition climber. And I asked myself, do I want to be only a competition climber? And somehow I could answer no. And I was super fortunate that my sponsors were following me on the rock climbing journey. So I went there with full confidence.

Ella Russell (22:59)
Amazing. And in terms of the process, like six years, some injuries, quite a bit of uncertainty, I guess, like, and it's quite a long time.

Mel (23:09)
Yeah, but

I think you need to put in perspective that until 2016, I was fully a competition climber. So out of those seven years, I started really to try again Accent D.R.A.T.E. from 2017 on with like having more time because competition takes so much time. It's a full dedication.

It's hard to combine both, let's say. So 2017, I really tried, but it was very rainy and basically like the whole spring it was wet. And like in September 2017, I injured my finger.

Ella Russell (23:41)
So

On the route.

Mel (23:59)
Yeah, the next day I felt really strong and the next day I kind of warmed up on another route and yeah, it was too much for the finger. So 2018 I was injured and I came back in 2019. In 2019 I was feeling very strong, like an ice state spring and autumn there.

Ella Russell (24:18)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mel (24:29)
and it was super close and I came back in 2020 And yeah, that's all. So at the end it's like, it's a long process, but in term of focusing, it was always on my mind and I wanted to go back there, but it was more like, okay, trying to find the right time to go there.

Ella Russell (24:37)
Okay.

Yeah, totally. Yes. So you had some quite like sustained in the process and like long breaks away because of injury, etc. Competitions. Yeah. And when you were, I mean, the conditions that I have spent a lot of time in the Frankenjura and

Mel (25:01)
Yeah, competitions, injuries, conditions in Compagnola.

A full

spring the holes were wet. Full spring. And then, I don't know, somehow like in 2019 it was not anymore. we were like, okay, thinking maybe like some things at the top changed like the running water somehow because that was not possible in 2017. was crazy.

Ella Russell (25:37)
Wow. Yeah, it's intense. So I feel like these whole seasons in the Franco-Niora, I've been there quite a few times now and sometimes because where action is, there's quite a lot of woodland around there, isn't it? And so it can if it's not getting any wind or it's not getting much else. It's it's really

Mel (25:54)
There

is a bit because it's a bit high up, it's on the hill and some wind can enter to that place. So it's not like deep down which makes a bit of a difference but still when it rains in from Franconura it's properly raining.

Ella Russell (26:12)
Yeah, totally. It's a beautiful place, isn't it? But it can be quite tricky when it comes to conditions. In terms of your physical approach, so you spent time obviously on the route and then you were away from the route back home. What did you do specifically in terms of training for the route? How did you approach that?

Mel (26:38)
So the first years I approached it like a competition basically. So I trained for several months to prepare for April and stayed there pretty well, like in form and so. And I tried to target some key points to develop for that moment. And yeah, I in 90, no, but that like...

let's say winter 2017, winter 2019 and winter 2020. Actually, I did like the three winter fully training for it. And when I was in competitions, basically I trained for competitions and I went there and tried.

Ella Russell (27:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, with no specific, yeah, how specific did you get? I feel like I've seen some footage of you having replicas made and all sorts of things.

Mel (27:37)
Yeah, like, no, yeah, I tried to replicate a bit the jump, but I realized it was more of like a biceps, triceps pushing movement. So I did a lot of like jumps on the compass board mainly, and also quite a lot of like finger hanging to kind of prevent injury. So

Ella Russell (27:52)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mel (28:07)
not fully loaded finger training, mainly like let's say 60 to 80 percent maximum. quite a lot of movement also on two fingers.

Ella Russell (28:17)
Okay.

Yeah, okay. And when you say hanging, do you mean like overhead, two armed type work? you doing that with that monos and the like?

Mel (28:30)
Yeah, two hands, overhangs

with weight. And also quite a lot of two-finger endurance training.

Ella Russell (28:41)
Okay, on the fingerboard or on the wall or both? Yeah, okay.

Mel (28:43)
on the fingerboard,

on 20 millimeter fingerboard.

Ella Russell (28:48)
Yeah, okay. And I would like quite short end, short sort of like repeater style.

Mel (28:50)
with a bit of load.

Rebeca style.

Rebeca style or like movements.

Ella Russell (28:59)
Mm-hmm. Okay, like on the fingerboard, moving around. Do you feel like that contributed a lot and helped?

Mel (29:02)
on the fingerboard.

Yeah, a lot. Yeah, in terms of being comfortable too, actually, because it's such a difference being, let's say, comfortable on hanging statically and moving just because of the size of the finger.

Ella Russell (29:25)
Yeah, yeah. And I guess as well with pockets, the sort of strain that you can often feel down the forearm and getting getting over that and so I always sort of like talk about breaking in the grip and I always feel like with pockets, that's particularly important because if you do get that feeling don't you of when you're moving rather than just hanging on pockets.

Mel (29:44)
Yeah, exactly.

But I always started with like hanging and at the end of the cycle, like trying to move through it, like cycles, like something.

Ella Russell (29:53)
And did you do any particular

weight training for it? Because you talk about biceps and triceps and like, that feature in your training much at that point?

Mel (30:03)
Yeah, quite a lot, like regular, like three by three power training and afterwards a lot of like power endurance training. Like a lot of like different contractions mixed into power endurance training. And I think that's helped so much for that route. That's for sure a point.

Ella Russell (30:13)
Yeah, okay.

Yeah, okay.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, okay.

Mel (30:30)
because it's basically when you can do the jump pretty regularly, the problem is to align the jump and the upper part, which is probably a very poor endurance 80 plus on two finger pocket.

Ella Russell (30:46)
Yeah, it's, yeah, it's, it's, and you've got to do quite a, it's a big snatchy limit level movement and then regather yourself and keep pulling hard for a reasonably sustained period of time. Yeah, yeah. Amazing.

Mel (30:59)
Yeah, exactly. So I

try to push like the power endurance side also try to do, for example, like a bit of like something will tire me either on the max level or on like easy repeaters before and then after max endurance training to lower, yeah, to lower my maximum strength.

Ella Russell (31:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mel (31:29)
and

raise and focus on the power endurance.

Ella Russell (31:32)
Yeah, I think that combination for that kind of route is really important, isn't it? That like ability whilst to have that top end just taken off you, being able to keep going psychologically as well as physically.

Mel (31:45)
Yeah, and it's funny, it's like I've seen this, like the process of like training for climbing, like for one route has been very good for me in terms of mental strengths, because somehow I was used to that process with competitions and it was easy for me to replicate it. So you train really hard, you feel really strong and you go there and you try your hardest, basically.

Ella Russell (32:11)
Yeah.

Yeah. So you have that clear like phased approach of like, this is when I'm in training mode. This is when I push quite hard with training and this is when I'm in execution mode.

Mel (32:21)
Exactly, because then I'm, let's say I'm very convinced that I have the capacity to do it, because I really train for it and I feel have the level. So there is no doubt and no question. It's just a question of time.

Ella Russell (32:36)
Totally. Yeah, I get that. On the mental side, I feel like I know you had time away from it, time on it, and it was multiple seasons and you had bad weather to contend with. From the outside, it feels like you must have incredible resilience and determination to be able to do that. Did you feel like that? Did you notice?

Mel (32:54)
Yeah, the film made a very obsessive

woman waiting on a corner in Franconiura. Finally, the root was dry and she tried and she failed again and come back next day. it's true. It's a very interesting story. The reality is a bit different.

Ella Russell (33:02)
You

And how did it really feel?

Mel (33:22)
I've been very, I'm someone who really likes to do a lot of things. For sure, when I was very dedicated to Action Direct, I was like living there for two, three months, but I mean, I really liked the community there. And I spent quite a lot of time and building a life there. So for me, it was not just waiting in the corner of Franca and Jura.

Ella Russell (33:41)
Mm-hmm.

Mel (33:51)
It was more like a bit being at home a little bit, like seeing friends I really cherish and I really care. So it was very easy. And there was like a full year and a half I was really not in Franconia, like in 2017 to 2018. And yeah, was doing all the stuff in the winter, doing all the stuff in the summer.

Ella Russell (34:01)
Yeah, totally.

Mel (34:21)
Like,

Ella Russell (34:21)
Yeah.

Do have other things going on? Yeah, I think I've noticed that in the Fanghoenjura there is a there's a really nice scene like around Bayreuth and Nuremberg. like I've been yeah, there's a lot of climbers. It feels a bit like Sheffield in some ways. There's a real hub of climbers and once you know them and you can train together, can climb together. It's fantastic.

Mel (34:36)
Yeah.

Yeah, and they're very welcoming, very nice people.

Ella Russell (34:46)
I totally agree. So I something I feel like I've noticed is that you seem to gravitate towards limit level projecting and all the disciplines that you get involved in. I mean, maybe that's just because that's what people see on social media. But like, do you also try things that aren't limit level? yeah, how does your, what's your motivation for climbing? Like in terms of limit, the balance of limit level projects versus other climbing that might be easier for you.

Mel (35:16)
I really like board climbing. That's my middle level projects. Let's say I have some projects in the training like this. I really like to do lot of project climbing. The only problem is like I've hanging out in those crags for 15 years and I was very motivated to climb.

everything when I was younger. And now I feel like, for example, in CEUs, I've been there since I'm 20. like, every route up to 8b, I've done it multiple times. And I even do like some funny challenges, like try to warm up on the route the highest possible. I am up to warm up on, for example, Lamy de tout le monde or trying to warm up on

Chirurgien du Crepucule, which is 8B. And it works at one point because you start the challenge from 7B on and then after you rise it up. So I like to do this kind of challenge. And I like when I go to new crags, I really like to do some onsights or very quick climbing project like one, two tries, 8B, 8B, 8B+.

Ella Russell (36:40)
Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah.

Mel (36:44)
80 sometimes. Yeah, but let's say I'm very driven by now. I think it's the evolution of like climbing over the years. Like, of course, like everybody is very different in this approach. But on my quest to push my limits and was always attracted by lines and history of lines. And let's say

I wanted to put all my energy on those. So it's been like what's driven me over the years in climbing.

Ella Russell (37:21)
Yeah, that totally makes

sense.

How do you?

Mel (37:24)
And maybe

we will switch again, you know, and now it's a bit different because let's say in pure climbing, I call it pure climbing like spot climbing, bouldering where you can really push the movements. And even for me, pure climbing will be bouldering because you really push movements and specific details which matter in bouldering.

Ella Russell (37:38)
Not flat climbing.

Mm-hmm.

Mel (37:53)
meaning you change an angle of a foot or knee or let's say like the position of the hips or like shoulder, whatever, like how you take the holds. It's so precise and I really like it. So for me, it's like pure climbing. It's like pure means more like a zoom into climbing. While sport climbing, I don't have the endurance yet to be as

a pure climber, like in my definition. I'm working on it. So I wish I can, yeah, let's see, yeah, combine those things. But I like to do a lot of other stuff. And it's like trying to find a balance in between all of the stuff. And I found my motivation recently a lot in like multi-pitch. I think it's because I have like,

Ella Russell (38:26)
We're working on it, we're working on it.

Mel (38:53)
hang out a lot in sport climbing's area all over France and it's kind of a renewal. like seeing other places and doing other stuff like some stuff which are not in a rhythm that I know in terms also of like new challenging in terms of mental strength also going

to do a bit more of track climbing and checking how that works and or like crack, crack climbing, which is very different, which I think is very nice. But for me, it's not the definition of pure climbing. I really like it. No interpretation of it. It's my, my is like.

Ella Russell (39:34)
Try it.

Yeah.

your own personal view of like...

Mel (39:52)
Exactly.

It's zoom into climbing how details and stuff matters. It's bordering and how details compare to bordering in an extreme level. It's not the same in terms of level. That explains my mind.

Ella Russell (40:12)
Yeah, yeah, I know exactly.

yeah, like getting involved in all the little subtleties of exactly what angle you want your sort of fingers to be at, like, and exactly how you take the hold, like, you just can't do that on the sport climbs a lot of the time, or not in the same level of depth.

Mel (40:28)
No, you can't do that.

Exactly. You think you do that a bit, but on an extreme baller, when it's very on your limit, it's on another level. It's an obsessive level, honestly. It's like next level of obsession of detail. And it's why I try to balance all, because I really like all parts. And I feel like I can't miss one, but somehow it creates.

Ella Russell (40:46)
Yeah.

Mel (40:58)
Like all kind of climbing creates a balance to my life right now.

Ella Russell (41:01)
No, I think that's perfect. And did you consciously decide, right, I want to try all of these different disciplines now because I think this is going to happen? Or did you just slowly start to try other things because it felt right? Like how did that process look becoming multidisciplinary? Did it slowly happen or did you sort of go, right, I want to try other things as well?

Mel (41:08)
I'm old.

Well...

It's funny because I always told myself at 35 I want to climb, I will be a bit older so I will have less power and it's funny because I don't think the same right now but when I was back 25 I was really thinking okay the time for like multi-pitch climbing and all the stuff is maybe 35 because for sure I will have so much less power and can't do the same things. Well I don't think it's that...

true because somehow I don't feel have less power. It's very funny and it's nice to see. I could keep on for like many years. It's only like bordering. It's absolutely not a problem, which is really cool. It's more of like a balance in terms of mental health in my motivation for climbing.

Ella Russell (42:06)
Mmm.

Mel (42:18)
I needed to see other staff after doing the same thing for 15 years. like I went to discover other kinds of climbing. And it's very nice because it's like all the games, all the rules, and you're not equipped as well as you used to in bouldering. I am. Yeah. So...

It's just very interesting. It's like you becoming like not a pro athlete in that anymore and you start again to learn things. And you're not just very obsessed about details, which is very cool.

Ella Russell (42:59)
yet.

I

think sometimes that contrast, isn't it, can be really refreshing.

Mel (43:08)
Yeah, very refreshing

for sure. And then when you come back to bouldering, you have like a fresh mind and fresh motivation. And at the end, it's what the most important for me.

Ella Russell (43:21)
Totally.

It's interesting, like you had this thing about 35 in your head and I feel like I'm older than 35 now as well. And I mean, I kind of feel like I can resonate. Like I was like, yeah, when I'm getting into my thirties, this is gonna, this might happen. But very much like you, I haven't noticed anything. And it's interesting where we draw those little arbitrary lines, don't we, of like when we think something might happen.

Mel (43:48)
Yeah.

Ella Russell (43:51)
Totally. So just moving on.

Yeah, moving on to your training with us. So we've been working together for a few months now. And I think quite early on, one of the unexpected things for you was on your finger boarding, you felt like you noticed some changes there. And I say that was quite unexpected because you're no stranger to training. You've done a lot of it. So can you...

Mel (44:17)
It's funny, sorry I interrupt you. It's funny

because actually I train quite a lot power, but not so much finger. And the way of training in finger strength in the French teams or French federations are very different than the British approach. And somehow I was qualified as

Ella Russell (44:39)
Mmm.

Mel (44:45)
that I had quite a lot of finger strength already so it was not a target and it was never it's never been a target until I trained with you guys.

Ella Russell (44:54)
Okay, so you feel like it wasn't something you, for whatever reason you associated yourself or coaches associated you with having already strong fingers, so it was not something.

Mel (45:04)
And it's

true, I had quite a lot of finger strength compared to others. And I could use it quite well while moving. compared to my strength level, which was not that high. So I put a lot of energy to that first. And while it's kind of maybe weird for you to hear, especially because the British approach have

Ella Russell (45:09)
Mm-hmm.

Mel (45:34)
there's two parallel, what I've seen, like two parallel things, like gaining strength doesn't mean not training for fingers somehow. But in the French approach, let's say like training, like fingers means a lot to training max power.

Ella Russell (45:58)
Okay, can you give an example of what you mean by that?

Mel (46:01)
Max hangs like

three to five seconds max hangs but you never do things before basically you only to to push your mic to push your finger strength like we used to believe

Ella Russell (46:17)
like the intensity,

high level intensity.

Mel (46:21)
Maybe they changed their approach because that's an approach which was like in 2016, so almost 10 years ago. maybe they really changed their approach.

Ella Russell (46:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And I guess,

yeah, with us, we've been taking more of an approach of trying not to be at total max, trying to leave something in reserve with your finger boarding sessions. And do you feel like that's been helpful?

Mel (46:49)
Yeah, totally. I think it's key to develop finger strength. It's like not try to reach like the maximum to actually push like this maximum strength to build up. It feels just because the sinews are working very differently than muscles that the approach should be different. And I think it's a very

smart on the British approach. I like it.

not the British approach. let's say like the way how you guys kind of like read through science and put it into the training is very smart.

Ella Russell (47:39)
Yeah, well, and I think we've also, I have to say to everybody, you're very dedicated as well. one of the things I've really noticed that have come out from working together is you're really consistent and it sounds really boring and like it's, but it's not because you're really consistent and you turn up and you do the training and you're curious about it as well, which I think goes such a long way.

Mel (48:01)
Yeah, for sure. yeah, I'm very dedicated. When I decide something, I put the energy in for sure. And I feel bad if the app tells me that I have to do that and I'm not doing it. So I prefer to not be in trouble with the app.

Ella Russell (48:09)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Just for everyone's benefit. It doesn't tell you off if you haven't done it.

Mel (48:29)
It just tells you you didn't reach the right percentage of things.

Ella Russell (48:36)
Yeah, it's very good for focusing the mind, isn't it? The app in terms of...

Mel (48:41)
No, but yeah,

for sure. I think for sure in terms of like training for like finger strength, it's super important to have a constant consistency, least like three times a week. And it has been proved with like papers on science, how a senior works and build with collagen and stuff with like very

Ella Russell (48:53)
consistency. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Mel (49:12)
deload hanging, how it helps improving health.

Ella Russell (49:20)
health of the 10th and everything.

I think we've because we've taken a page haven't we have we've done like quite a low volume but high frequency approach, like we've done a little bit quite often with the off the wall fingerboarding that you've done. And I think yeah, that's

Mel (49:35)
And the French

is totally different. It's like one or two times a week, fully on max hangs. And that's all. And I think it's not the perfect approach in my eyes for finger strength.

Ella Russell (49:52)
And I guess what's interesting for you is that this has been quite a different type of approach, which for someone with a huge training background, it is quite interesting to take a novel approach to your training. And we're seeing some results, which is really exciting.

Mel (50:07)
Exactly. And it's funny because first of all, I thought having this 15 years background of training that, yeah, the exercises are very, I will call it simple or like something I've seen, nothing new somehow, but like combined in a way and the frequency and a bit of like a deload.

80 % approach that I've never done and somehow I think it helped me quite a lot in terms of like gaining like some strengths in that direction.

Ella Russell (50:49)
No, I'm really pleased to hear that. then I guess what we've all said, it's not just been hanging, has it? As we've built up towards your sort of peak bouldering season, which you've been in for the last few weeks, we've been doing a little bit more contact strength work, haven't we? So like some like looking at your rate of force development and how quickly you contract on a hold as well. And feel like you've been noticing some improvements there.

Mel (51:13)
Yeah, and that in the French approach, it's something we do a little more. So my contact strength has always been quite high. But it's for sure like, it's like helpful in. Yeah, it's the two part of finger strength that's super important, like strength in the finger and contact strength and shoulders.

Ella Russell (51:20)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And that leads us on, because this is very important for your current project, which is Dreamtime. Can you tell everyone a little bit about your project that you've got on the go at the moment?

Mel (51:52)
Yeah, so I tried Dreamtime. I was very close in 2022 and I kind of like injured my finger and crashed. I had like a little emergency landing with paragliding, broke my leg. Yeah.

Ella Russell (52:14)
Very, very minor there,

Melissa. I wouldn't necessarily call that little.

Mel (52:18)
Yeah, let's say it put me like six months of like none, none being able to walk. Well, like not six months walk, like I couldn't walk for two months and then the rehab was pretty long. And I went to hiking a bit more, more to Alpine and yeah, like explore other stuff. And when I came back from Patagonia, like in March this year,

I wanted to come back a little bit into climbing hard again. yeah. So I've, yeah, I've been very psyched on the goal of like trying to get back in the level where I can try Dreamtime again. And I think I've reached that goal. I can try it and I feel pretty strong on it and reach close to reach the high point I had in 2022.

let's say have good chances and I'm pretty psyched about it. And Dreamtime is the classic boulder in Ticino 8C. Michaela climbed it recently. yeah, it's the first 8C climbed by Fred Nicolle and has quite some history. So I like this climb for sure.

Ella Russell (53:43)
that why you chose

it? it the yeah like tell us about the choice of making making that one your project.

Mel (53:50)
Yeah, I like history and iconic lines. And it's for sure one of the choices for that reason. Also, my partner Fabien showed me the boulder and we went to Tuchino quite a few times together. So it has quite some meaning to me here. And it's a boulder which is a lot of power endurance.

combining like, let's say two AWS A and B boulders together. So quite long. Yeah.

Ella Russell (54:27)
Yeah.

Yeah. And what was your like, how has it been going this season? Like you mentioned, you've pretty much got to almost your high point before. Like, how have you been approaching your sessions on the Boulder? Like what's the process been like for you?

Mel (54:41)
Well, so far, the first part of the boulder is not a problem. the stand is the target to climb through, for sure. I never managed to climb the stand very easily, and it's a bit of a target. It's becoming way more consistent. There is a lot of things to...

handle skin and conditions for me on this boulder because the crimps are quite tiny. They are eight millimeter with no edge. So for me, it's not that easy. Let's say for me, it's probably the hardest 8B, like the stand that I've ever climbed. But climbed it probably, I don't know, 50 times or more. So it's like...

Yeah, like I climbed it every session I go there. So it's trying to pull the pieces together basically. And I've like really worked on how, like what I should change in terms of details on this move because I keep falling on the same move after matching the two crimps like to go to this edge on the left. And yeah, like details like.

Ella Russell (55:47)
Yeah, absolutely.

Mel (56:09)
how I should position my hip, how important the position of my knees and the foot and so on. And there's been a lot of details focusing and pretty helpful on the process. So let's see how it goes. Hopefully I go in 30 minutes.

Ella Russell (56:27)
yet.

Would

you say your beta has changed much compared to when you were last on it?

Mel (56:37)
A little bit, yeah, because I think I've been training a lot like shoulder strength and have developed quite a lot of strength with it, which is super cool, like the training we did together. So the left hands have changed the position that I wasn't able to do before, like way more into shoulder. it enabled me to not lean too much.

to the left and stay too long to the two crimps to change position and go on the left again. So yeah, I've modified quite a bit the sequence and also like the way how I will prepare the move before going has like the focus is more like detailed than before. But I think also

Yeah, let's say because maybe in 2022, I was very focused on bouldering and I was only doing that. So probably I was way more fit for bouldering. Like way more, also way leaner somehow because I think, yeah, power and weight matters in climbing. And I have probably like five more kilos here.

Ella Russell (57:49)
like in the zone.

Mm-hmm.

Mel (58:00)
in like leg strength because of hiking and stuff. So yeah, so I can use my body differently and it's very interesting to see and to talk about it and not as like a taboo or something, just saying, okay, it's actually working as much and as well if you train really well. and it's really cool to see.

and then you don't need to make a compromise.

Ella Russell (58:30)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's a real positive that you've put on more muscle mass in areas like such as your lower body, but you are finding that you can use that in a useful way. Yeah, that's exciting.

Mel (58:34)
Exactly.

for sure. Yeah.

But let's say, because of alpine climbing, work a lot. I work in between one, two, three or four times a week, and mostly 1,000 meters or something like this. So it's like a lot of mass in the legs compared to before, which is cool.

Ella Russell (59:06)
Yeah,

it is. And I think we talk about this a lot, don't we? Because I think one of the things as working with you as your coach and it's like you like to be doing, don't you? Like this is one of your things you like to be on the move and sort of like, Ella, should I tell you like just how much alpinism I'm doing and like balancing energy levels? And I guess that's an important thing for you. And we've touched on this already that for you, your motivation is really you want to be doing other things, not just

purely focusing on the project at the moment.

Mel (59:37)
Exactly. think I've reached... Yeah, I need a balance in my life on these things. It was not the case before and now it's how it is. I really like hiking and being in the mountains. It's something I need to balance for sure because it requires a lot of energy too and it's very different than purely climbing. It's like how to balance both.

Ella Russell (59:38)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And I think being just really honest with how you're feeling, isn't it? And like being quite in tune with your body and whether like it's worth making that's sacrifice to rest a little bit more this day because you know you need the energy for the next day or actually, you know what? I want this is good. I want to do this. I'm very consciously making this decision. I want to put all this effort into this alpinism today because it's the right thing for me.

Mel (1:00:30)
Yeah, totally.

Ella Russell (1:00:32)
And so I guess it's just to finish. This leads us onto your paragliding really, because I feel like, yeah, how long have you, a new part, a new dimension of your life. Yeah, like tell us about that. How did you get into it?

Mel (1:00:38)
and it's a free connection.

So I started in 2020, has kind of a hobby on the pandemic and been doing my first flight. just have to come pandemic to do like the license with the school. And yeah, like, first of all, I just wanted to go down from the mountains and have some really nice hiking flights. And in

2021, I got really into thermal flyings and I have been combining a lot. Yeah, my climbing and my goals in climbing and with race day in paragliding and ended up in the summer sometime 12 hours under my paraglider cruising the whole South of France. But it has been really exciting and seeing like

Ella Russell (1:01:39)
Wow.

Mel (1:01:43)
how much possibility you can do with paragliding. And it's just a way you move with the sun and you can see so much, like you can out zoom all the places you've been hanging out, for example, like in Seus or, and I have used paragliding to combine a bit of stuff like.

thanks to the vision of Fabia and my partner who is doing a lot of like mountaineering and paragliding and combining both and in my own level I like to combine stuff too because I think it's very exciting like for example climbing an easy goulart and arriving at the top and taking off it's very fulfilling it's a lot of like it's very exciting

Ella Russell (1:02:21)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

How is there any like, because I haven't paraglided at all, but how do the mental and physical challenges compare? mean, obviously the getting up to the top to be able to obviously understand the Alpine side of it, but like, yeah, is it completely different? Is there anything you can take from climbing that you can put into your paragliding?

Mel (1:02:54)
I think, well, let's say the more things you could more compare to will be track climbing with paragliding. It's like, for example, you're on a tricky takeoff as I was a week ago and there is gusts of 40 kilometers per hour and there is like little windows where actually you could take off without problems and

Yeah, it's like decision making. How much do you trust your abilities to take a decision at the moment present? Well, in track climbing, I feel it's very similar. It's like, how do you trust your last placement? And how do you mentally commit to the climb?

And I think it's... And in paragliding, it's like you take off and you are in the air. And it's like very... Like you take the decision and it's over. In climbing, you can reverse. In paragliding, you can't. So you're in the air, you're in the air. So, yeah. And I found it very interesting in term also and like it's like a massive chessboard.

Ella Russell (1:04:03)
Okay,

Mel (1:04:16)
For example, when you have the bigger wings and you want to do kilometers, and you're like checking every corner of mountains. For example, I don't know, like sometimes you are next to Mont Blanc, sometimes you are in La Meige, and you see how the chase board, you see like, okay, this rock face with this wing will create that, and sometimes you're true.

Sometimes you're wrong and you evolve in this air mass you can see. It's very, very entertaining. And I think it's very similar to like onsite climbing.

Ella Russell (1:04:53)
not a decision

Yeah, I was just thinking actually, like having to make decisions on the fly, like judgments all the time.

Mel (1:05:01)
Yeah,

exactly. it's like, need to fully commit. It's like you take one decision and you go, because if you're like, maybe no, and so, and most of the times it doesn't work. It's because you make no decision that you end up landing. It's like, because you make no decision on site climbing that you end up in the rope.

Ella Russell (1:05:21)
Yeah, totally.

Yeah, absolutely. Do you feel like is in terms of the risk level that you take with paragliding like, yeah, how does that feel? Is it something where there's a lot of risk you can't control or is yeah, how does that feel for you?

Mel (1:05:44)
I think training in paragliding, like piloting training is very important if you do the kind of stuff I started to do. For example, doing a lot of thermal flying is super important. Also taking off from the mountain or if you want to do combos, for example, landing in a glacier and climbing something and then flying again from the top.

Ella Russell (1:06:12)
Wow.

Mel (1:06:14)
Because yeah, because sometimes the air mass is not exactly how you want. I think it's the key is really training like flying training, like piloting.

Ella Russell (1:06:30)
and time just to experience different situations.

Mel (1:06:32)
Time,

like the time you put in, not just the years, time you put in.

Ella Russell (1:06:38)
Yeah, totally. it sounds amazing. I want to go and try it. Yeah, no, I totally, totally want to.

Mel (1:06:43)
Yeah, you should. It's

actually the perfect rest days.

Ella Russell (1:06:50)
Yeah, because I guess it's not as long as you haven't done a huge hike, it's not too physical.

Mel (1:06:55)
But you can also just go to normal takeoff, most of the time you don't hike so much. Most of the time you don't hike because there is really a lot of different disciplines in paragliding and the thermal flying, like XA country, XA flies we call it, going from one thermal to one thermal to end up, the very best do 350 kilometers.

Ella Russell (1:07:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mel (1:07:25)
And for example, I did between 200 and 250. It's depending on your speed and how you can manage to take quick decisions and stuff. But these are some very heavy stuff, like some backpacks, are up to 35, 40 kilos. Mine is maybe 25. So you don't hike for that. It's a bit like bouldering and...

Ella Russell (1:07:49)
Yeah. Yay.

Mel (1:07:54)
Yeah, there is so many disciplines in paragliding too. It's between bouldering and multi-pitch climbing, let's say it's very different than just flying down from the mountain. It's not because someone is flying down that he can actually move from one mountain to the other. And what Fabian is doing, for example, or what we do a little bit together is also like landing somewhere, climb something and then like take off again. It's also like combining a lot of skills.

Ella Russell (1:07:57)
sick animal.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mel (1:08:23)
Totally. So like you can hike, some other you don't need to hike. I like to hike so it's why I combine all those kind. But if I want to do a proper rest there I will go thermal flying.

Ella Russell (1:08:37)
Okay, I'm gonna be more in tune now with like understanding what you're doing on rest days and like she's thermo flying that's very restful that's fine.

Mel (1:08:48)
It's fun. In the summer, I stay 12 hours under the wind in constant turbulence and strong thermals, I'm doing maybe 12 hours of abs on my harness. And the next day, I'm fully destroyed because mentally I put 12 hours of energy. It's crazy. Sometimes you don't even have time to eat so much.

Ella Russell (1:09:15)
Yeah,

do you take food up with you when you're doing that kind of?

Mel (1:09:18)
Yeah,

you take two, three bars. The problem is you want to optimize everything. So it's a bit like a long 50 meter route where you want to optimize everything. Maybe there is some rest, you can eat a snack.

Ella Russell (1:09:21)
Nothing is

Yeah, I have done that

before.

Wow, okay. Yeah, no, I could talk to you. I could talk to you all day. But you I know you have to go because you have a project waiting for you. So in terms of like now, you're obviously in Ticino, like what does the next year look like for Melissa? Like, what's what's on your agenda?

Mel (1:09:54)
Yeah, I'm super motivated to go back to biography and try bibliography. So the focus from January on will be to raise endurance. until, let's say until, yeah, until January, I focus on borrowing and also have like a little project I want to do in Patagonia. So I will try to combine both.

And I'm doing a lot. I really like to do, let's say, alpine climbing in summer because everything is so warm and I want to go up somehow. yeah, it's my plan for now and probably do a bit more of track climbing. And yeah, let's see, try bon voyage probably. So I will see how.

we can manage to put all that together. I can't. That's your thing about your cracks with me. Trying to combine everything.

Ella Russell (1:10:57)
Well,

I think it's great. No, I love this challenge personally is good. And I think we have a really good way of interacting regularly. Don't we? I think that's really important. It's like, perfect. Brilliant. Well, thank you very much for Melissa.

Mel (1:11:08)
Yeah, totally.

Pleasure. Very nice chatting.